With their freshman effort I Wish We All Could Win, The Afters not only met with instant favor in the Christian music world thanks to their support from MercyMe—they also found unexpected success in the mainstream. The Texas-based pop/rock band’s signing with Simple/INO Records didn’t come with a plan to break the secular scene, but the company’s general market distribution through Sony quickly led the single “Beautiful Love” to a sixteen week run in Hot AC Top 30, MTV airplay, and various radio and television appearances. Though The Afters could have opted for a quick and easy follow-up to strike while the iron is hot, frontman Josh Havens, guitarists Matt Fuqua and Brad Wigg, and drummer Marc Dodd made a conscious decision to take their time to retool their sound and get it right for their follow-up, Never Going Back to OK. And as Havens noted in a recent conversation with Christian Music Today, it became an album about never settling for mediocrity in any part of life, including spiritually.
Was there any fear coming into this project, since it was the follow-up to your successful debut?
Josh Havens: With this record, we were definitely conscious that it was our sophomore effort. The first record introduces a band, the second legitimizes them, and I’d say the third record eventually defines them. We had great support from our label. Even though INO Records wanted the album earlier on, they let us take more time because we didn’t think it was ready yet. As a result, even though we were happy with our first record, we’re even happier with this one.
What would you have done differently the first time out?
Havens: In regards to any regrets over our last album, most of my complaints are things that might seem small and tedious—like the way a line was sung or a particular guitar part. We were still very happy with it, especially being our first album with INO. We worked with Dan Muckala and Brown Bannister on that album and learned a lot from them, but we were also still trying to figure out who we were [as a band] at that point. Making that record, touring, and living with the other guys for three years has really helped us discover who we are as a band.
So that was a huge hurdle that we had already crossed going into this new album.
The four of us are really great friends, almost like brothers, and work together better today than ever. We’re also really close to Dan Muckala, [who worked with us again for the new album]. It’s like the awkward first date was behind us and now we’re all very comfortable with each other, which makes for better chemistry. Never Going Back to OK was really a collaborative effort and we had so much fun with the creative process.
How did Dan help steer these sessions and contribute to that process?
Havens: Dan really pushed us and was the real driving force in directing us. He was giving us suggestions as to what was weak and what was strong. Ultimately I’d say he pushed us to make a much better record. In the end, we wanted to have a record where every song belonged and there were no filler tracks. So many times, you’ll have a band put out a couple of great singles but fill up the rest of the record with other stuff just to round it out. The bands I love the most put out albums that you can listen to from beginning to end, like Keane, Coldplay, and The Beatles. It’s very rare these days, but we wanted to take time to get all the songs together just right.
What helped evolve your sound for your sophomore effort?
Havens: We didn’t work within any constraints that freed us up to have a lot of diversity on this record. We had the freedom to write about whatever topics came up, and the album covers a wide variety of subject matter because of that. There are some heavy songs that deal with loss, and there are lighthearted songs, like “MySpace Girl,” inspired by our former bass player meeting his wife on MySpace. There’s also an underlying theme of transformation throughout the record—going from being what you are or have been in the past to a new and improved person.
Was that theme planned from the start?
Havens: We didn’t intend for it to be a theme, but after finishing the record, we could see the idea of transformation throughout the entire album. Several songs could be about not being content on where we are and striving for more, or taking the bad that comes in life and letting it be used for good—that God is ultimately in control and he can take the chaos and make it beautiful. “Summer Again” is a good example, dealing with several different issues of loss and changing seasons. It could stand for your life as you look back and long for the glory of your youth, or it could be about coming to terms with where you are.
So what inspired all these themes and ideas concerning transformation?
Havens: It all started after the loss of my dad, which was really big to me. He passed away from cancer at a relatively young age, shortly before we released I Wish We All Could Win. Since then, a lot of my family has also been diagnosed with cancer. I have a relative in Holland whose wife passed away from cancer last year just after giving birth, and the baby developed cancer shortly after and passed away as well. We’ve had some really trying things in the band family having to do with disease and sickness. Our manager is battling pancreatic cancer; no small feat, but he’s doing great and the prognosis is good. Our guitar player Brad has a son with autism and had to deal with the emotional transition, so it’s been pretty crazy for all of us.
But there have also been many beautiful things, like my wife and I having two beautiful children born during that time—now we have three. Our guitarist Matt had a baby boy during the same period, and now has two. I have a brother who’s dealt with drug addiction for over fifteen years, but over the last year he was brought out of that; he’s gone through really intensive rehab and come to a place where he’s really on fire for God. Even in the darkest experiences, we can see how God can take them and demonstrate his grace by transforming them into something beautiful.
You’re one of the rare bands that has a following with Christian and secular audiences alike. Has that affected your writing process at all?
Havens: I don’t think it affects it at all because ever since the beginning, we’ve had the same goal of making the best music we could make. We never go in with any agenda and we’re always honest about who we are and the experiences we’ve had. We’re all Christians and faith is very important to us, which comes out in the music. But we write about a lot of things people deal with universally—things that others can hopefully identify with. On the last record, people took a lot from songs that we never would have imagined. There was a woman who was about to leave her family and one of our songs was just what she needed at that moment, so she wound up getting counseling instead. The goal is to be honest and to be ourselves—to write about what’s important to us and hope it speaks to other people as well.
When the band first started, was there a defined plan to go for general market success?
Havens: Not at all. When we signed with [INO], they told us they weren’t a mainstream label and if we wanted to do a crossover thing they were the wrong label. So it was a total surprise when Sony came to us wanting to release the album! Now we have Columbia on board to release and market the new record to the mainstream while INO serves the Christian side. It’s led us to playing at clubs and bars one night—to people who would never listen to music in churches—and then playing [Christian] high schools, colleges, and Disciple Now events the next.
Does your presentation ever change depending on the audience?
Havens: [No matter what the setting], we’re not going to change our philosophy or water down anything we believe. But at the same time, we’re just trying to make great music. I would say the only thing that changes is the need to be conscious of the people you’re around and the words you use to communicate your message. Things like “grace” and “salvation” are easily expressed to a Christian audience, but don’t mean as much to those who don’t understand the basic elements of faith.
We try to live out what we believe instead. One thing we’ve heard a lot when we visit mainstream radio stations and MTV is that they were nervous knowing we were Christians, thinking we’d be condescending and judgmental. But instead they come around and enjoy working with us—”There’s something different about you guys.”
We love people for who they are, and aren’t trying to stuff anything down anyone’s throat. If you’re honest about who you are, people will respect that. If you hide it, they sense that, and if you’re going overboard, they sense it as well and it shuts them down.
Why do you think Christians so often settle on the bubble subculture mentality?
Havens: Because it’s easy and safe. In [making music] you can fall into the mentality of “Well, they liked that the first time around, so why not try it again?” There might be something to that line of thinking, but then again, it might not connect with people the second time. For The Afters, we really hope it does, since our goal is to stay true to ourselves as artists and writers. Like the title Never Going Back to OK, we love the concept of moving forward and feeling courage. The sense of vision is almost romantic—like the unlikely hero taking the unimaginable risk ahead of you.
How would you encourage listeners to challenge themselves throughout whatever line of work they may be in?
Havens: It all goes back to making goals for yourself and striving to reach them, not being content on where you are or what’s easy. We’re all in the same boat in a world trying to figure out why we’re here. As long as we’re moving forward and striving for more, we’re becoming what God wants us to be.
How does that idea tie into our personal and spiritual lives?
Havens: Again, it’s the question we all face constantly in life: how can we better ourselves? Throughout my whole life growing up, I never questioned faith. But then in college, I had a professor who was Buddhist and taught a philosophy class. During that time, I wrestled with my faith quite a bit, but untimely came out stronger. I think it’s really healthy to be able to have someone challenge your faith, so you can better know why you believe what you believe. Just believing what you believe is never enough, you have to be able to explain it and always be growing. For me, it’s always about moving forward, learning from my mistakes and watching God work through the things we experience.
